Howdy folks! We are now one week into live poker in Pennsylvania, and a little more than one week from my originally scheduled trip to the Bethlehem Sands poker room and things are already coming to light.
I’ve been reading up about the Bethlehem Sands poker room, excited for the new venue, which officially opened this weekend. When I first learned of the room, I was super excited, but my good buddy Ruff tipped me off on the fact that the room would only have 12 poker tables and consequently, the closest poker room to NYC was expected to be overrun by players, resulting in long waits for a table.
For a guy with no car, reliant on public transportation, the idea of traveling by bus to PA and waiting around for 4 hours to play was less than appealing. I looked into whether I could find a hotel in the area in walking distance and didn’t find anything too promising. That ruled out showing up and crashing until 3am for a lighter wait at the tables (buses don’t run at those overnight hours). So, I decided to wait and see what the reviews had to say. Thank god for poker trip reports.
According to the only decent trip report I could find, on opening day at 4:15pm, there were already sizeable waiting lists. For 3/6 limit, there were 36 names on the list, for 1/2 NL there were 132 names and for 2/5 NL there were 84. Sheesh! But this isn’t really as bad as it sounds.
First, let’s be clear, this was opening day, so there should be more people there than usual. I doubt things will significantly die down by July 31, but in a couple of months, things should be more manageable.
Second, the wait times are the key issue. For 3/6 the trip reporter only had to wait 70 minutes. While that is not ideal, it is workable, especially if I plan ahead. He played 3/6 while he waited to be called for the other tables. It took 3.5 hours before he sat down at 1/2, though, and that I cannot abide. Still, first week, though, so let’s see how things develop.
With this the only decent man-on-the-streets account out there, I am reconsidering my July 31 trip. I have to admit, even before all of this news, I began to consider whether my day would be better spent on a golf course than a poker room. Alas, as it now stands, I am actually looking into a third possibility. I may be going back to my standard. Good, old Atlantic City!
Go figure! The PA poker scenes has actually wet my chops for AC again. I want to play and if PA is going to be a pain, I should just stick to my old standby. I can be on a bus in the morning and be back at night very easily. I’d be able to play without the pain that is long waits or the hassle of learning a new room in a remote location.
And it looks like I’m not the only one refocusing on AC now that PA poker is here. According to an article I found via Poker News Bulletin, New Jersey may step in to help clean up AC, both literally and figuratively.
NJ’s plan includes the end of the state-owned Meadowlands Racetrack (home of harness racing) and a NJ takeover of the AC gambling and entertainment district, including police and garbage pickup. NJ will be essentially creating a city within a city, as the casino section of AC will be under NJ state control and the rest of AC, literally the trash of the area, will be left to the local government. I cannot see this as a good thing for the surrounding areas, but then again, its not like those areas are really much to visit now anyway.
This is all from a report from a commission that was designed to determine how to help NJ’s casino industry. Amazingly, they came to many of the same conclusions I did. Most notably, they thought that for AC to succeed in the face of expanded nearby gambling venues, AC would have to become a destination spot. This means more focus on investing in entertainment, like an amusement park or NASCAR track. It also means courting more conventions to the area. Hell, there is even a proposal to redo the gaming laws to mimic those of Vegas. I can only hope that Vegas-priced rooms are coming next.
At the very least, the new competition is forcing AC to reevaluate what it has become. I still find it to be my second home town and I love it for everything that it is, but it has, sadly, become, in many ways, outdated and, in other ways, at risk given its poor reputation and lack of new developers. That’s a good thing too, because if PA casinos don’t die down a bit, it looks like it’ll have to remain AC for me.
Until next time, make mine poker!
July 22nd, 2010 - 3:10 pm
Don’t have much of a report, but I did make the trip out to PA on Sunday. I was running late though, and by the time I got to the Bethlehem Sands (80-90 minute drive), the wait was already 2+hours. I think there were 2 2/5 tables, one limit table, and the rest (9?) were 1/2 (which I understand took an extra dollar of rake compared to AC rooms). The floor seemed a little disorganized, but that may have just been the crush of people. The casino itself is really nice (probably the nicest casino I’ve been to on the east coast). Poker room is on the main floor, but separated out in the non-smoking section and gets a fair amount of natural light. Tables all had auto-shufflers and comp readers.
Given the wait though, I decided to drive another 80 mins to the Mohegan Sun in Wilkes-Barre. They’ve got 16 tables up in a room that is in a separate wing from the main casino (the state of PA won’t let them install the rest of their poker tables until the probationary period is over, so half of the room has blackjack). The room had been open a little longer, and the floor appeared to be very organized and the room was pretty well-run. Better mix of games (2 2/5, 6 or 7 1/2, several different limit games — incl 30/60 mixed — and two 10/10 NL tables). Room itself is kind of dark (not sure if there were any windows), and like Sands, has the auto shufflers and comp readers. I waited 10 minutes for a 2/5 table (got called for a 1/2 seat about 10 mins after that). Table had several area “regulars,” who were comparatively softer (lots of poor bet sizing and firing at pots with strangely obvious bluffs) than the regular rocks at harrahs or the aggro guys at Borgata 2/5. After a relatively decent session, it took about 2 hours, 15 mins to get home.
PA law won’t let them hook their comp points into those of their parent companies, so you won’t be able to build anything up at the Venetian or the MS in CT. Although I may try to go back to the Sands on Saturday morning, I’m not sure how much sense it will make to go over the long term. Drive is shorter, cheaper (fewer tolls) and there’s almost no traffic, but you could be in really bad shape if you get there on a day when no game is going (or like Saturday at the Sands, was packed).
July 22nd, 2010 - 3:19 pm
Jordan-
Got two other suggestions for you which are a lot shorter wait time to seat: Harrah’s at Chester, PA (which is brand new as well, and seemingly as far as AC), and Delaware Park (which may be shorter than a trip to AC). I can only comment on DP; I posted a trip report from last Friday on my site. It was GREAT! Players were TERRIBLE. Highly recommended.
July 22nd, 2010 - 3:20 pm
Doesn’t someone or some business in PA plan to open more poker rooms?
July 22nd, 2010 - 3:56 pm
I don’t understand your excitability over PA rooms Jordan. Is it because it’s closer? Here’s what is going to happen with AC.
Bally’s and showboat will close their poker rooms. Trop will as well., I have no time frame on this but figure within the next 6 months.
This cuts AC’s poker tables down to about 30%
PA will not hold more than 15 tables per room and will always be jammed. The exception here is PARX (Bensalem) whichsupposedly will have 75 tables, but who knows how long it will take for them to offer that. September 1st is the scheduled opening date, but how many tables I’m unsure.
DP had droves of people leaving for AC this past weekend because it was too packed. AC is going to win this battle. There is no doubt. As more and more fish come out to play in these live events held at PA casinos, they will learn, and eventually head to AC for the big games.
July 22nd, 2010 - 4:57 pm
Thanks for all the info so far, guys.
Rigg, the reason why I’m excited is because the spread of poker means MORE POKER. That’s primarily it. Yes, I am glad that PA casinos are slightly closer than AC, but its only slight. It’s not like there is a casino 30 minutes from NYC (yet). I am also excited to see how the competition will affect the game, for better or worse.
I have to say though that your predictions are a stark contrast from a lot of what I have seen. For instance, I heard that the Bethlehem Sands expects to have 25 tables open within a matter of months if things go well, but you said that PA will not have more than 15 tables per room. Alceste just opined that another PA casino plans to expand their poker room in the future.
And likewise, how can you expect AC poker rooms to close but also state that droves of people were going to AC for poker because of the wait at PA casinos. Where have you heard that AC poker rooms would be closing?
I don’t doubt your sources or info, since you seem to always be very well informed on these subjects. It’s a lot more likely that my other sources are wrong (re: expanded rooms). I’d love to hear more of your thoughts.
July 22nd, 2010 - 5:41 pm
Riggs,
Don’t know what your sources on that are, but Showboat has been actively trying to revamp their poker room — they’re getting in a johnny rockets and holding a huge freeroll tourney in August.
July 22nd, 2010 - 7:14 pm
Hey Jordan,
Already have plans to check out the sands during musikfest when i go down, let me know how you like it?
July 22nd, 2010 - 8:25 pm
Jordan,
I live in Union County NJ, and would be happy to drive you out to Sands, especially in the next few weeks while my kids are still both at camp. Let me know by email (I think you can see it, right?).
I promise I’m not (very) weird. I can offer PokerGrump for a reference, and CK and I sort of correspond (although she always leaves LV when I show up). I also met John (lightning36) for a White Sox game with his son in early June.
I also hit AC occasionally, with spousal permission.
I can pick you up at Metropark, which is a direct train from Penn
LMK
Jason
July 22nd, 2010 - 8:25 pm
Jordan,
I spot you a sleeper sofa if you need a place to crash. I’m down in Riggs’ neck of the woods but Bethlehem is doable for me tho Chester is closer. Let me know if and when and maybe I’ll take a run up. Going to check out Harrah’s Chester on Sun.
July 24th, 2010 - 10:42 pm
PA has limited poker tables for the probationary period. Parx opens with 36 tables in September (maybe October) and then PLAN to go to 100. The other casinos are also planning more poker tables, but from my industry sources, will take a back seat to gaming tables if the margins prove to be what they expect.
Harrah’s management in AC (top level at least) governs all Harrahs’ properties. So the Main Gaming GM oversees all properties. It has been pretty much known that their smaller properties poker rooms are on the block. The Trump Marina spent tons of money on their poker room and closed it within 2 months. The plan is to be as efficient as possible.
Sometimes things don’t make sense, but it’s the word I’m getting and I’m getting it from some pretty heavy hitters.
I agree with you Jordan that this is only going to grow the poker population. i would gather that 50% (if not higher) of the people in the PA rooms were were first time casino poker players. At least for any stretch of continuity.
I’m happy as can be about it. It’s only going to offer opportunity to my company. But I think that AC is going to continue to be the premier poker place on the east. And when I say AC I mean Borgata
July 25th, 2010 - 7:18 am
And Erie, PA did not get poker tables. WTF!