Here is a fun hand from a No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo game.
I had 2,815, slightly less than the 3k starting stack, and the blinds were 25/50. Preflop, UTG+1, Jared (3620), min-raises to 100. It folds to Bobby, the button (6000) who calls. I then call in the SB with 2
Q
A 8. The big blind, Shop (3000), calls.
The flop is K
7 K
. It checks around.
The turn is 6. It checks around.
The river is 3. I bet 250 into the 400 pot. It folds to the Bobby who pushes all-in for 6k. He has me covered. I fold.
So, is this a no-brainer fold? Was there a better way to play this hand on the flop, turn or river? You decide, because I’m clueless.
Until next time, make mine poker!
June 14th, 2010 - 12:25 pm
For us Neanderthal types [me], this is hi/lo, so you have the nut low, here, right? I’m assuming you’re worried about quartering here against his push (he’s going to show up with A2 as well, and take the hi).
I think you’re probably losing money most of the time, and at best, winning half of the 400 in the pot. Not that I’m an expert in Omaha, but it appears as though this is a fold spot.
June 14th, 2010 - 12:41 pm
I have to second the fold. At best, you’re putting 2815 in after around 200 profit. There’s just no profit in it.
I’m tempted to check-fold the river, and hope to see the showdown cheap. On the flop, you need a runner-runner to have a chance at either half. IMHO, you’d have to insta-fold any bet anytime in this hand, so you’re better off playing it slow and seeing if you can improve any. With nothing but a quarter at stake, I don’t blame you for the raise (might push someone off their trip kings and no low, for example), but the all-in means time to move on.
Of course, no limit Omaha anything is just evil. Pot limit changes all of the dynamics completely.
June 14th, 2010 - 1:19 pm
Well, it has been appropriately remarked on. It is a game of nut-nut and not nut-oops. When you’ve only one side to play, stuff happens. The blocking bet wasn’t horrid. His push added another perspective.
Good fold! WP Sir. I bet you’d kill to see his hand.
_
June 14th, 2010 - 2:12 pm
Yeah I think you have to fold here.
This hand is a perfect example of why Omaha is a chumps’ game when played in no-limit format. Pot limit was made for Omaha more than any other poker game out there. But as is, you have absolutely zero high hand and calling off your entire stack for 10x your last bet on the hopes of splitting is not a move you can profitably make, because you know anyone in there with you has the high half of the pot locked up over you.
June 14th, 2010 - 3:27 pm
I would check the river here for the precise reason that you can’t justify calling a shove with only $100 invested in the pot. The $250 bet on your part could, sometimes, take down the pot, but with a flush and a pair on board, it’s more likely that someone was sitting on a monster. My feeling was that Bobby had a boat with a marginal low, but it’s not worth your stack to find out. He’s pushing because your bet indicates you might have a hand and he can beat it. I think that if you check here, he bets for value, probably $400, and you can call and split the pot without fear. But floating a bet is just begging to be played back at.
June 14th, 2010 - 4:25 pm
Easy snap fold.
I suppose it’s possible he’s jamming with A2 and a worse high (A2Jx?) and you could be three quartering, but that’s really really doubtful.
Yes, this is why NLO8 is a jopke.
I’d rather check/reeval on the river here than lede in such an obvious spot, where any A2x hand or strong high is never folding and may reraise to make you drop a one way hand.
June 14th, 2010 - 5:11 pm
Yes, you have to fold and it’s not close. I echo the previous commenters, Hoy and Heff’s remarks in particular – I detest Omaha as a NL game – since there is no way this is anything but a snap-fold barring some sort of soul-read.
The only thing more stupid than a NL08 tournament is a NL08 cash game. *shudders*
June 14th, 2010 - 5:41 pm
Let’s first all agree that PLO8 is not a game designed to be NL. I agree that NLO8 is a sucker’s game, but that is exactly why I was happy to play it. The worse the game, the worse the players, and I was hoping for a soft field. I would not, if given my choice, choose NLO8 over PLO8 under any circumstance, but if I see a NLO8 tournament which is presumed to have a weaker field than most PLO8 tournaments, I’m not one to turn away.
Now, with that out of the way, it seems we all agree that the river fold was necessary. I guess the only question is what about before the river fold. Is there anyone who thinks folding preflop makes sense? I guess not, since its such a small bet and there is decent money in the pot (pot of 275, with a required call of 75).
The next question is should I have simply checked the river, since I don’t think anyone would recommend bluffing out of position in this scenario on the flop or turn. This is where I’m most unsure. Was the blocking bet a good move or not? I have to admit that I didn’t consider the possibility of a NL push here. In hindsight, I think a check with the nut low from the SB was in order, with a call, since the level of play at these NLO8 games is pretty low and I could easily have the only A2 around. Once the push happened, though, I had to consider the real possibility that the pusher had a bare A2 (in these fields, it happens), which is why my fold was so obvious on the river.
Thanks for the comments, everyone.
June 15th, 2010 - 11:44 am
I think the fact that it is no-limit makes the blocking bet really that much worse. I’m not sure I bet out in pot-limit either, but at least there you can’t be blown out of the water with a silly allin raise like what happened here.
And no, I don’t recall ever folding a hand with A2 in it preflop in a low-limit O8 game (cash or tournament). I can conceive of that for sure, but not in this venue. Although with it being NL that might make for some more valid folds with A2xx than in a normal pot-limit O8 game.
June 15th, 2010 - 1:05 pm
Lead the turn. If raised, fold. If called on turn then b/f the river or c/c if you think the dude will bet smallish on the river enabling you to showdown cheaply. As played, obviously an instafold. I think you chop a very high % of the time. No way he has nut-nut. Most likely like someone said he has the nut high and a marginal low. Makes no sense for him to push that high with the lock. Even a donkey would get some value here, no? Plus, what are the odds the button does not re-raise pf with A2, especially given how aggro he was on the river. But in a tourney not worth finding out. Got plenty of chips left to work with.
June 15th, 2010 - 1:05 pm
BTW, I don’t mind you line. Just tossing out an alternative way to play the hand perhaps.
June 15th, 2010 - 1:47 pm
Thanks for all the comments. Clown, I was looking for alternatives, so thanks for sharing. Hoy, you make a very good point. The blocking bet does not make sense in a NLO8 game like this. I’m better off check-calling a reasonable bet than block betting. I think that is true of NL or PL, since in PL, the blocking bet would actually benefit a raiser by increasing the pot-size.