Comments on: Tipping Point http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:22:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Drizztdj http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7611 Drizztdj Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:17:35 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7611 Despite the dealer toke and extra chips. I still gave another 3% of my winnings to the dealers at Binions.<br /><br />Especially for how long the O8 tourney lasted (15 hours). Despite the dealer toke and extra chips. I still gave another 3% of my winnings to the dealers at Binions.

Especially for how long the O8 tourney lasted (15 hours).

]]> By: HighOnPoker http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7608 HighOnPoker Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:39:21 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7608 Gunslinger, it's called, Trance Tuesdays by Tranceportal.org. I don't even know if they still put out new ones, but I'm sure you can find the old ones, and with each being several hours long (2hrs+), all you need are a few. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'm sure I can email you a few. Gunslinger, it's called, Trance Tuesdays by Tranceportal.org. I don't even know if they still put out new ones, but I'm sure you can find the old ones, and with each being several hours long (2hrs+), all you need are a few. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'm sure I can email you a few.

]]> By: Gunslinger http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7607 Gunslinger Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:13:28 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7607 What's the name of that podcast? I'd love to try it out at the tables. What's the name of that podcast? I'd love to try it out at the tables.

]]> By: HighOnPoker http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7606 HighOnPoker Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:13:53 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7606 Schaubs, the title was definitely inspired by Gladwell's book. I think I may've written about it in the past, though. Schaubs, the title was definitely inspired by Gladwell's book. I think I may've written about it in the past, though.

]]> By: Schaubs http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7605 Schaubs Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:10:29 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7605 And here I thought this post was going to be about Malcom Gladwell's book...<br /><br />Good post nontheless. And here I thought this post was going to be about Malcom Gladwell's book…

Good post nontheless.

]]> By: Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7604 Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:58:08 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7604 I think anywhere between 3 and 5% is generally accepted as an acceptable tip for the dealers in a live (casino) tournament. It may be greater for an underground club due to the risks involved, I don't know, but casino-wise I think as long as the dealers are ending up with at least 3%, then they shouldn't complain. I'm sure dealers would tell you that 5% is a minimum, but in reality I would say 3-5% is pretty standard in my admittedly limited experience.<br /><br />At the Venetian Deep Stack this summer, they were taking 3% off the top for the dealer, <i>plus</i> another half a percent from each buyin as an additional "dealer toke" that was theoretically optional but which everyone takes. For us chopping at the final table, a 3.5% mandatory tip to the dealers regardless of performance, length of time or anything else seemed right. If the dealers hadn't gotten anything out of the prize pool, I would have certainly tipped them up to the same 3-5% level. I think anywhere between 3 and 5% is generally accepted as an acceptable tip for the dealers in a live (casino) tournament. It may be greater for an underground club due to the risks involved, I don't know, but casino-wise I think as long as the dealers are ending up with at least 3%, then they shouldn't complain. I'm sure dealers would tell you that 5% is a minimum, but in reality I would say 3-5% is pretty standard in my admittedly limited experience.

At the Venetian Deep Stack this summer, they were taking 3% off the top for the dealer, plus another half a percent from each buyin as an additional "dealer toke" that was theoretically optional but which everyone takes. For us chopping at the final table, a 3.5% mandatory tip to the dealers regardless of performance, length of time or anything else seemed right. If the dealers hadn't gotten anything out of the prize pool, I would have certainly tipped them up to the same 3-5% level.

]]> By: BigTPoker http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7603 BigTPoker Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:21:32 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7603 At some point it just all adds to be ridiculous. Consider that there is likely a casino out there somewhere with a:<br />1. club entry fee<br />2. mandatory coat check (with fee)<br />3. drink minimum<br />4. server mandatory gratuity<br />5. table/tourney buy-in<br />6. table rake<br />7. dealer toke<br />8. expected dealer tip<br /><br />Just count it all together. Money lost is money lost. If you're there to make money that is all that matters.<br /><br />If you're just there to have some fun it won't make much difference. But if you're serious and are there to make money, 3-5% here and there certainly adds up and makes your goal more difficult. At some point it just all adds to be ridiculous. Consider that there is likely a casino out there somewhere with a:
1. club entry fee
2. mandatory coat check (with fee)
3. drink minimum
4. server mandatory gratuity
5. table/tourney buy-in
6. table rake
7. dealer toke
8. expected dealer tip

Just count it all together. Money lost is money lost. If you're there to make money that is all that matters.

If you're just there to have some fun it won't make much difference. But if you're serious and are there to make money, 3-5% here and there certainly adds up and makes your goal more difficult.

]]> By: Astin http://www.highonpoker.com/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7602 Astin Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:29:31 +0000 http://69.73.186.10/~highonpo/2009/08/tipping-point.html#comment-7602 No actually. The toke for more chips is generally optional, but at a rate that makes it hard not to take. Still, I've played in games where there are those who didn't take the toke option at my table. So a tournament of say, 10 people, could only see $80 go to the dealers, which would be split 2 or 3 ways for potentially a few hours of work depending on the structure.<br /><br />When I played the Caesars megastack, I noticed the pool didn't add up to buy-in * no. of players. I asked the dealer, and there was an unadvertised 3% toke. I commented about it, and he laid it out something like this:<br /><br />The casino takes ALL the juice (so that $20 in the $100+20 goes to house), with none of it going to the dealers. There's a $5 or $10 toke option that most people take. For the tourney I played, that added up to around $5k for the dealers. Seems like a lot, but there are 50-60 dealers to start the tournament. 3% of the pool was another $4k or so. The house pulled in over $15k on the $30 fee.<br /><br />While I can only assume that the tokes are split up fairly (ie.- an hourly basis that's further split between how many dealers are in the game as it progresses), so that the guys who did the whole tournament get paid a fair bit more than the one who was only in for an hour, it's still a far cry from 16 hours of cash game tips.<br /><br />So, while I can see the % toke as being considered in the tipping calculation at the end, I don't think the OPTIONAL extra-chip toke should be. No actually. The toke for more chips is generally optional, but at a rate that makes it hard not to take. Still, I've played in games where there are those who didn't take the toke option at my table. So a tournament of say, 10 people, could only see $80 go to the dealers, which would be split 2 or 3 ways for potentially a few hours of work depending on the structure.

When I played the Caesars megastack, I noticed the pool didn't add up to buy-in * no. of players. I asked the dealer, and there was an unadvertised 3% toke. I commented about it, and he laid it out something like this:

The casino takes ALL the juice (so that $20 in the $100+20 goes to house), with none of it going to the dealers. There's a $5 or $10 toke option that most people take. For the tourney I played, that added up to around $5k for the dealers. Seems like a lot, but there are 50-60 dealers to start the tournament. 3% of the pool was another $4k or so. The house pulled in over $15k on the $30 fee.

While I can only assume that the tokes are split up fairly (ie.- an hourly basis that's further split between how many dealers are in the game as it progresses), so that the guys who did the whole tournament get paid a fair bit more than the one who was only in for an hour, it's still a far cry from 16 hours of cash game tips.

So, while I can see the % toke as being considered in the tipping calculation at the end, I don't think the OPTIONAL extra-chip toke should be.

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